Thank you. While the flash-and-batt method that you advocate will work, I don't think that the analysis presented here is a very strong argument in favor of flash-and-batt. We help you decide which foam material is best for your job and how much will be needed. This type of installation doesn't need to be trimmed. Farmers Market, Georgia, 204,000 square feet. Manufacturers of high-pressure SPF typically provide sets of A-component and B-component in 55-gallon drums. Air & Safety I guess the "more" I was referring to was versus just using ccSPF. Getting back to the closed cell foam. Please be aware that our site is best experienced with Ad Blockers turned off. I'm remodelling a log cabin and have a 1/2" to 1" gap (probably averaging something inbetween those two numbers) between the inside framed 2x4 wall and the interior (flat, D-log) wall. For better options, see this article: "How to Design a Wall.". Does the basement area have any drywall? I don't do work or have experience in those areas so I will only comment on Zone 2 and Zone 3. He has a B.S. Low GWP 620 Spray Gun Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. To continue this discussion: If you add a continuous layer of R-5 insulation on the interior side of the assembly that would otherwise have a whole-wall R-value of R-12.5, you end up with a new whole-wall R-value of R-17.5. In a 24 wall, the installer will usually stop at a maximum depth of about 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches, leaving the typical bumpy surface of cured foam. You may have to show your mechanic if the particles keep coming after the first fix. While there is no arguing with the thermal bridging viewpoint when it comes to closed cell foam, what about as a vapor barrier. Even OPEN cell foam isn't the greenest or most sustainable solution. A gallon of mineral oil can be ordered from chemical suppliers for around $25.00. We detail to seal at stud/floor/header, etc. Clean the metal or aluminum shavings in the transmission pan along with the magnet. The density of the trimmings tossed in the dumpster is lower still. The area I am planning to finish seems to have minimal issues but I was going to double stud those walls as well. Response to Steve Kreisher We bring the spray foam rental equipment and foam material directly to your job site. Time is fleeting. So what is the convensional wisdom regarding TJI framing factor?Worst case scenario is a 3.5" flange at top and bottom and a 3/8" flange? (In much warmer or mor humid climates you might still need an exterior side vapor retarder, since the fiberboard may too vapor permeable to avoid problems in air conditioned buildings.). The SPFAs ISO-compliant Professional Certification Program (PCP) is available to all professionals involved in SPF installation and allows the contractor to demonstrate knowledge, skills and abilities. High-R properly vented cathedralized ceilings are cheaper and more resilient, if it's new construction with reasonably simple roof lines. Or is the MemBrain the interior finish material? We've broken down our insulation equipment by category so you can easily build out your spray foam systems. Because after the spray foam is applied, it will be higher than the skylight, creating a low spot that will hold water and create future issues. Every additional layer of continuous insulation added to the 2x4 assembly (that is, the 2x4 studs with insulation between the studs) provides additional R-value to the wall. Also, more paragraph breaks would makes things easier to read on screen. Do you have any thoughts on addressing the thermal bridging issue (and lower R-values at the wood framing) with T-studs vs. continuous exterior insulation? Flash and batt - check your closed cell manufacturers ESR reports and you will see that the closed cell flash required to be an air barrier is at least 1.3 inches. Closed-cell spray foam is so dense that it is difficult to trim. Gypsum is a mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate. GREAT STUFF. It can be designed out. Life Long Lasting Vapor/Air Seal. Spray-foam insulation has become a weapon of choice for many builders and homeowners trying to build tight, energy efficient houses. 4. The modified wall that your GC is recommending is 1. not 'green' 2. barely meets code (insulation) 3. violates the rule of thumb for minimum thickness of exterior rigid foam for a 2x4 and 4. unnecessarily expensive- especially given the lackluster performance of such a wall. Get free shipping on qualified Spray Foam Insulation products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Building Materials Department. (As of right now today the local dew points have moderated to about 60-65F in eastern MA.) It certainly can be done. Education should be mandatory! Find My Store. 2x6 frame Half-pound foam trimmings are assymetric, and don't stack tightly and the raw foam itself is ~1/3 the density of most rigid foam used in residential application. Can't say I disagree It just depends on the condition of metal the foam is going to adhere to. I have no experience with T-studs. Allow the foam to expand completely and harden before you start working with it. It can also be used to taper (create slope) around certain areas of the roof to ensure positive drainage. I understand that requirement may be under threat in the legislature, but for now, good things are happening. Are there any other similar techniques ? Spray foam is a lightweight, fluid-applied product that can be blown away and land on undesirable assets such as car windshields and windows. It would also be much cheaper. While SPF may be applied in numerous climatic conditions, manufacturer recommendations should always be followed. Spray foam is the only renewable roofing system out there. It cures around 1-2 inches in thickness. Then make your decision based on what you learned about each option. Christopher, Reduces air leakage and air-infiltration. It might not be cost-effective, but its certainly an alternative. Response to Nicolaas Wilkens Its fluid-applied and expands 30 times its size within a couple of seconds. Once the roof is properly prepared, a contractor can start installing the spray foam roofing system. Spray polyurethane foam (SPF) is a premium building insulation utilized widely in structures of all types, including metal buildings. Attic Ladders Foldable Fakro Attic Ladders White My Texas House Area Rugs Texture Indoor Carpet Tile Mid-Century Gray Ceramic Tile Shop Large Format Bronze Decorative Accents Shop Unfinished Wood Kitchen Storage & Organization Shop Ruvati 31 in Farmhouse Kitchen Sinks Violators will be prosecuted. Urethane board stock was installed under the floors throughout. Note the Icynene open cell foam does not hold moisture in walls or attic assemblies. spray foam roofs usually cost between $4 and $7 per square foot. Response to Christopher Welles (Comment #7) 6. Spray foam is a chemical product created by two materials, isocyanate and polyol resin, which react when mixed with each other and expand up to 30-60 times its liquid volume after it is sprayed in place. Additionally, overspray from SPF insulation applications must be controlled to prevent it getting on unintended surfaces. These are things that more resonate with me personally rather than a general argument as to its superiority, so I don't expect it to convince anyone. Gaps and Cracks 12 oz Smart Dispenser Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. The table in my article accounts for the thermal bridging through the studs. in Marketing from the University of Akron and an MBA in Marketing from Walsh University. One minor critique Selection of Appropriate SPF Products: A wide range of SPF products are available in various densities, each exhibiting different performance characteristics such as moisture resistance, R-value, and structural properties. If you shop around, you may find it cheaper than this. Good things are happening But it actually crossed my mind as I have a rather overgrown hydrangea right in that corner so it is right up against the house. My other alternative would be either cellulose or open cell foam. Copyright 2023 West Roofing Systems Inc. All rights reserved. We install foam over every type of existing roof, including metal. Repels Skunks, Raccoons, Rats, Mice, Deer Rodents & Critters. Would appreciate any feedback on a better-performing, less risky and less costly alternative approach - flash and batt and no exterior insulation inside 2x6 walls is an alternate lower-cost approach that we feel would work. Learn More. This foaming spray acts as the best insulator to both heat and cold. closed cell followed by open cell . It seals gaps, cracks and holes where insects and pests commonly enter. One nit to pick is that the cellulose was blown in ~4" holes (on the interior OSB side) with a large hose, not with dense-packing hoses, and thus probably not at a density sufficient to eliminate settling over time. Note that not all spray polyurethane foams require thermal or ignition barriers. It's fluid-applied and expands 30 times its size within a couple of seconds. Let the foam set up until it's stiff and carve off any excess around the. If were talking about the summer of 2021, spray foam roofs usually cost between $4 and $7 per square foot. 5) Environmental friendly - Spray . Get your hand a bit closer when pointing up, and use a lighter trigger pull so you don't "bounce" the foam off the surface. The big-picture concern is actually more about trapped moisture than whether the substances that make up spray foam insulation will corrode steel or metal sheets. The best way to ensure best practices are followed is to utilize a professional, experienced SPF contractor. Spray Polyurethane Foam. The facility includes a two-hour rated fire wall with IBC fire wall code certification, safely separating the commercial and living spaces. These barriers protect against condensation and water damage, maintain indoor temperatures and humidity for dramatically reduced energy costs, and reduce the amount of allergens and pollutants able to enter the structurea true benefit for those suffering from allergies. I've never heard of property taxes being primarily driven by house size. This regulates the temperature by allowing minimal heat loss. I wondered if this wasn't letting the area dry out and after reading the linked article the sun may be creating a bit of a humidity "hot spot" given the endless rain we have had. Code Compliance. Dana Dorsett's suggested method -- spraying closed-cell spray foam against the underside of the roof sheathing, followed by a layer of open-cell spray foam on the interior side of the cured closed-cell foam -- is generally considered safe, especially if the thickness of the closed-cell spray foam layer meets the minimum R-value rules described in this article: Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation. ft - or 0.8%. The workshop and warehouse parts of the building comprise the larger portion of the insulation installation at 17,200 square feet. Its continuous membrane, which can adhere to virtually any building or structure, including awkward shapes such as curves and voids, contains the most efficient insulating properties used in modern industry. We are working on a project in Climate Zone 6 and have specified rigid exterior insulation (2" XPS) over 2x4 framing with fiberglass batts or cellulose wall insulation in stud cavities. If it's only happening in the days following a rain and independent of out door dew point temps there could be moisture loading up in the sheathing due to improper or inadequate drainage between the clapboards & sheathing. In US zones 5 & lower it doesn't even need the low vapor retardency of the interior side wood sheathing to meet code, only for structure. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Great Stuff 99112809 Smart Dispenser Pestblock, Gray, 12 Ounce, Stuff-fit - DS8044 Copper Mesh for Mouse Rat Rodent Control as Well as Bat Snell Control 30 Foot Roll, Full Size, HARRIS Peppermint Oil Mice & Rodent Repellent Spray for House and Car Engines, Humane Mouse Trap Substitute, 20oz, Exterminators Choice Rodent Defense Vehicle Protection Spray | 1 Gallon | Natural, Non-Toxic Mouse and Rat Repellent | Quick, Easy Pest Control for Cars and Trucks | Safe Around Kids & Pets. Brick, Concrete, Metal, PVC, Wood. John, SPFA has published a guidance document on selection and use of primers for SPF, AY-143 Primers: Why, When and How to Use Them. Prior to and during application, adhesion of the foam should be checked. 1-800-356-5748 This sounds like inward solar vapor drive, in light of your observation that the areas that get a lot of sun are damp, while the shaded areas are dry. I can't say I disagree with that. ", https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/7/wall-covering#R702.7.1, "When Sunshine Drives Moisture Into Walls.". Its more cost-effective to leave the areas that are in good condition. Yes, weve done hundreds of spray foam over metal roofs since weve been a company starting in 1979. First, remove as much as possible of the excess foam very carefully, then try some warm soapy water. I suspect your basement temp is somewhere in-between 65F & 85F, but you'll have to tell us what it is for the RH number to have any relevance. If you are insulating the interior of a basement wall, the closed-cell spray foam makes more sense than open-cell spray foam. The all-steel shell structure was built first then the commercial side of it was insulated with the spray foam. They don't miss a lick. Climate Pledge Friendly uses sustainability certifications to highlight products that support our commitment to help preserve the natural world. 0; Search Search. Like many materials found in a home or building, spray foam can ignite and burn if exposed to a sufficient heat source. The solar vapor drive is interesting and I didn't know it had a term. BTW: Climate change issues notwithstanding Boston is still IECC climate zone 5, not zone 4. (Although the article I linked to discusses rigid insulation and fluffy insulation, the R-value ratios in that article also apply to the minimum thickness of a layer of closed-cell spray foam.). Spray foam has an R-value of 6.5 per inch of thickness, which is the best of any roofing insulation out there. With the exception of a small area I need to deal with elsewhere, I think the foundation waterproofing is intact by virtue of I don't see any mineral deposits at any of the exposed form ties in the concrete. 7 . I am not sure about condensation on humid days with no rain vs those with rain. Response to Nicolaas Wilkens To understand why, we need to start by discussing the trimmability of cured spray foam. 20.5" Closed Cell Spray Foam Insulation Replacement Head for ProCUTTER 20CCH $ 1,695.00 20.5" Open Cell Spray Foam Insulation Replacement Head for ProCutter 20OCH $ 1,675.00 27.5" Closed Cell Spray Foam Insulation Replacement Head for ProCUTTER 27CCH $ 1,695.00 27.5" Open Cell Spray Foam Insulation Replacement Head for ProCUTTER 27OCH $ 1,675.00 While 1/2-inch gypsum in the walls and ceilings, or 3/4-inch plywood subfloor, prescriptively meets this requirement, other applications of foam may require application of an approved thermal barrier covering or coating. The SPFA promotes best practices in the installation of spray foam and is an advocate for energy efficiency in the built environment. Yes I should have given the temperature in the basement: about 64 in winter and 72 in summer. You can also apply paint thinners, gasoline, Goof Off, and AD-40, which should do the job. Surface Evaluation: SPF has excellent adhesion to most construction materials including metal. Now I never see any. Froth-Pak 12 Spray Foam Sealant Kit . Your initial plan does. Cedar shingles Looking at interior insulation and thinking Chris's argument for flash and batt (closed cell 2" open cell 3") in walls makes sense. Strong Adhesion: Bonds To Most Building Materials. In this article, youll learn about spray polyurethane foam roofing. Can be used on most common building materials such as wood, concrete, stone, plaster, metal, PVC, polystyrene, etc. Despite these efforts I get condensation in the summer behind the Membrain. Model # 341557. :-) ) Based on what I gather from sifting through in your articles and our experience, it sounds like this is just not a good approach - for starters, I'm not sure how the cost of spray foam cancels out the cost of an additional 1" of rigid insulation, and secondly we would be isolating the cdx sheathing between two impermeable layers. In limited access attics, an ignition barrier coating over the foam may also be required. In general, spray foam insulation cost runs between $1,284 and $3,741 to have it professionally installed, with a national average of $2,492. An RH of 45% is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to which the humidity is relative. They almost always go by appraised value, with the size of the dwelling being one factor. info@westroofingsystems.com, 530 Bonifacious Rd. Features and Benefits Product FAQ Helpful Tips 7. TECHNIQUE TIPS. Multiple immediate passes, with no wait time, may also be applied. If you have any questions, please contact us anytime. The closed cell portion appears to provide a nice way to address condensation issues, and it feels like it's an extra safety measure against water intrusion. Icynene open cell foam installed in attic assemblies is not risky. Some more food for thought. Years of Experience If you want to leave a gap between the logs and your 2x4 stud wall, to allow room for spray foam between the logs and the 2x4s, then the larger the gap, the better. Therefore, insulators can spray 2" of closed-cell polyurethane foam in a 2" X 4" wall, or 4" of open-cell SPF in a 2" X 6" wall, install HY-Fi, and still achieve R-21 or higher. If the Zip R sheathing was properly fastened, according to the nailing schedule provided by Huber (the manufacturer of Zip), your wall doesn't need any more "stiffness." The area is actually virtually free of obvious gaps with the exception of one water pipe to an exterior faucet (the penetration points in the exterior sheathing and top plate have been sealed). When applied in the walls, floors and ceiling, the material delivers numerous benefits including durability, energy efficiency and comfort. Spencer Forge & Manufacturing in Spencer, Ohio, West Roofing Systems installed spray foam over a metal roof at the. 2. Tomcat Rodent Block Expanding Foam Barrier - Specifically Formulated to Block Mice, Long Lasting and Foam Spray Keeps Mice From Coming Inside the House, 12 oz. See what benefits each roof system will give you. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. To me, this analysis supports the conclusion that walls benefit from a continuous layer of exterior insulation (rigid foam or mineral wool). Does Open-Cell Spray Foam Really Rot Roofs? To calculate the whole-wall R-value of a wall, we have to divide the wall into areas. Cutting Small Pieces of Spray Foam Download Article 1 Wait until the foam cures completely before trimming it. The advantages in using spray foam insulation are many. b. It would seem mitigate some types of potential bulk water intrusion failures. Respiratory protection for interior insulation requires the use of a supplied air respirator (SAR). April 30, 2022. With that approach, it does seem that thermal bridging through the studs makes them a potential condensation point, so that would seem to require exterior continuous insulation. For more information on inward solar vapor drive, see "When Sunshine Drives Moisture Into Walls.". Again, I very much enjoyed this article. a. I don't just have to rely on the tape and zip panels to provide a robust air barrier. Foamed Insulations offer Closed-Cell and Open-cell sprayed foam insulation for commercial, industrial and residential applications. Would you agree? That's 700% (7x) as much polymer, for a paltry net performance gain on the order of 10%. GREAT STUFF Pestblock Insulating Foam Sealant with Quick Stop Straw Technology helps protect your home from pests and insects. Many contractors claim spray foam is the best insulation option for structures built of metal. How much R-value are you trying to get out of your new roof? This is more common with closed cell foam, but it happens with open cell foam, too. SPF can be used to fill and seal cracks and gaps in the panel assemblies and dramatically minimize air leakage, however there are design parameters to consider. And just so you know, West Roofing Systems has been installing spray foam roofs since 1979. When spraying overhead, it's recommended to leave off the fan spray tip and simply use the mixing nozzle alone. Weve seen spray foam roofs that look like craters simply because the contractor didnt know what they were doing. That said, the conclusions reached in my article are not seriously affected by these points. For more information on the Bongfiglioli approach, see "Breaking the Thermal Bridge". SPF provides thermal, air, moisture and sound barriers, enhancing the interior comfort of the structure. I also think the analysis for a ceiling gets tricky depending on the structure used for framing--TJI beams (with thin OSB chords), 2X dimensional lumber, or roof trusses (with open spaces between chords which could be filled by insulation to mitigate thermal bridging). FROTH-PAK. So humidity paranoid I am that I was evening planning to do double stud walls to assure an intact vapor barrier. The trimmed out overspray filled an ENTIRE 10 yard dumpster. That's an unfortunate incentive for thinner walls. A 32-ounce bottle of mineral oil can be purchased for around $7.00 at department stores like Walmart and Target, at pharmacies, and hardware stores. A contractor begins by examining the current conditions of the metal roof. Cellulose is clearly greener than open cell foam as cavity fill (and has some thermal mass in higher R assmblies) though I can understand why sometimes people will go to open cell foam on a cost basis. After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. Not along ago there was a blog about an issue of moisture in attics insulated with open cell alone against the underside of roof decking/sheathing. The 3" of 2lb foam is 1lb of polymer per square foot of cavity area, whereas 3.5" of half-pound foam is only 0.146 lbs per square foot- call it 0.017lbs to account for any excess that's trimmed & discarded. I hope you learned a little bit about spray foam over metal roofs. Single-skin metal building assemblies are durable components of a building envelope, yet they offer no insulation. Remember, too, that drywall adds bracing, even though the bracing contribution of drywall is often ignored by engineers. Does your clapboard siding stay damp (perhaps because of a stingy roof overhang)? When you don't change the engine's oil regularly, the oil will not flow smoothly into its parts. I just list some answers and comments, 1. To follow current & predicted outdoor dew point levels, Wunderground isn't bad: https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/ma/boston, (See the green line in the graph below the temperature line.). Follow the links below or give us a call on 02 9898 0751 and we'll be happy to give you a hand! The slab isn't insulated but there is high-mil polyethylene under there (although I'm not sure if it can do much with the plumbing penetrations in slab). Response to Antonio Oliver (Comment #8) Ethan, it depends on the It fills tiny cracks and fissures in walls and roofs to form an effective air seal. May 2023 in Bucharest. Another benefit is that spray foam is fluid-applied, which means itll fill in all the tiny pinholes that a metal roof can have. Spray foam is a combination of two materials, a polyiso and a resin that get pumped from 55-gallon containers, through a hose that runs up the side of your building. Controlling the Dew Point I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you spend responding to me and others. Prior to my installing the radon mitigation system there would always be condensation on the plexiglass covers I made for plumbing penetrations in roughed in basement bathroom. An RH of 45% @ 85F has a dew point of 61F, and would condense onto (or adsorb into) a slab floor at Boston's subsoil temps. In a 24 wall, the installer will usually stop at a maximum depth of about 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches, leaving the typical bumpy surface of cured foam. Regular inspection, cleaning, repair, proper storage and maintenance are essential. Its very costly to do a complete tear-off on a metal roof, transport all those metal panels to the landfill, and then install another metal roof. The wall is comprised of 2-inch by 6-inch construction and includes 5/8-fire-rated drywall on either side with 2 inches of Lapolla FOAM-LOK 2000-4G sprayed into the wall, acting as a total air seal. (25 mm), forming a long-lasting, airtight and water-resistant barrier. A 2-inch gap would have been better than a 1-inch gap or a 1/2-inch gap -- but I suppose that a gap that varies between 1/2 inch and 1 inch is better than nothing. The basic idea (as you correctly guessed) is to allow spray foam to fill the gap, thereby reducing thermal bridging through the studs. https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/11/re-energy-efficiency#N1102.1.2, Even if you installed 3.25" of closed cell foam in the cavities (the most you could practically apply as cavity fill) and R5 on the exterior it would not meet the same performance standard, even though it would meet the letter (R20 + R5.). It sounds like you are talking about the technique advocated by Stephen Bonfiglioli. FROTH-PAK. First, let us take a look at what Drywall is made of.. Drywall has 2 outer layers and a core. The #1 problem is bad spray foam roofing contractors. The maximum value of the acoustic absorption coefficient of 0.86 is achieved by sample material 75-RPF (25% textile waste and 75% rigid . SPF is the only product that can provide these barriers in a single application. The thermal bridging performace hit isn't quite as large as with walls, but it's still real enough. The thermal bridging through your 2x6 wall studs tends to undermine any advantage from using spray foam between the studs -- as noted in the article above -- so I would recommend cellulose. It cures around 1-2 inches in thickness.
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